(BF pictured here with David Rockefeller, left)
BENJAMIN FULFORD (BF): Good, how are you?
DAVID WILCOCK (DW): Very well, very well.
BF: So, what’s going on?
DW: Well, I have recently subscribed to your benjaminfulford.net website.
BF: Uh-huh.
DW: And I would like to, first of all, commend you on the incredible job that you’ve done. I would say that the depth and the quality of your journalism has suddenly gone way up and it’s really nice to see that.
I would encourage everybody to subscribe, because if people are only going and looking at benjaminfulford.typepad.com, then they’re not getting the picture of what you’re doing here.
Now, you released a couple of them that were free to the public, right?
BF: Right.
DW: Because I remember [that] I read those first, but then what people may not realize is that you really have delivered the payload in the ones that have now come out since you switched it over to a pay-only site.
BF: Maybe I should put them out after a time or something, you know, for free, after one month and a day, or something. I don’t know. But obviously, you know, it helps... by paying, I can spend more time and effort.
DW: Absolutely. Now, is there a way you could increase your voice volume? Because right now you sound like you’re really, really far away.
BF: I’m using an old microphone because the cat chewed up my headset.
DW: [laughs]Okay.
BF: I’ll just have to put my mouth closer.
DW: Well, I appreciate that. That’s going to work a lot better.
Yeah, that’s definitely one avenue that you could take. I wrote, actually, an online book recently called “Disclosure Endgame” and I didn’t finish it, but it’s basically talking about how there is a financial event that’s coming to its apex, and this financial event seems to be correlated with the release of various suppressed technologies in the aftermath.
And you are certainly one of the leading voices on this front.
BF: Yeah, I mean, we’re actually working on concrete projects at this point.
DW: Yeah, I’m very aware that you’ve done that. And I’ve actually, as you know, been in contact with some of the people who contacted you originally when this all got started, specifically someone on the Japanese Royalty.
I got to say Benjamin that I really think that you’ve taken some abuse on the Internet that’s unwarranted, as does anybody who’s really bringing out the truth. It’s like the entrenched power interests have a stake in trying to ridicule you, to some degree.
I just want to say that, as one of the more respected researchers in this field, and how many people read my stuff, that everybody knows that my perspective has always been that you’re coming from a place of integrity.
I just want to again commend you on the ability that you’ve had to tow the line and stay on this very difficult path, given the opposition that you face and the ridicule that you’re inevitably going to face, when you break out of the mainstream and go into these kinds of subjects.
BF: Well you see, they might ridicule me, but they always refuse to debate me directly, because they know I would crush them with facts and truth. So, you know, I don’t really pay attention to these cowardly people and the disinformation agents on the Net. They’re just not... I don’t have the time.
And I do deal directly... I mean, I really do have direct contact with very important movers and shakers, and we are working on a new financial system. And, no matter what they do, they can’t stop it, so you know...
DW: What are your debunkers typically saying, in terms of how in the world you could have gotten access to David Rockefeller in an interview? I mean, what’s the typical skeptical attack that they could even give you on that? Because I mean, obviously...
BF: Well...
DW: ...there you are, interviewing the guy.
BF: Look, I mean, the David Rockefeller thing was... People think he must be an insider. But, no, what happened was he came here to ask for money from the Emperor and he appeared at a book signing at a bookstore in Japan.
They suddenly closed the bookstore, a bunch of security came in, and there was David Rockefeller. Somebody took a picture of him and put it on the Net, and somebody forwarded that picture to me, saying he thought David Rockefeller’s in town.
And I know when bigwigs come; they usually stay at the Hotel Okura, which is across the street from the US Embassy.
DW: Ah!
BF: So, I waited until 10 o’clock at night, which is I figured when all his handlers would have gone to bed, but he’d still be awake. I phoned the hotel and said, “Could I please talk to David Rockefeller?” And they put me through to his room!
DW: Oh my God!
BF: And I said, “Can I interview you?” And he said, “Yes.” So, I went the next morning with a camera from RAN TV and interviewed him.
DW: That’s incredible! [laughs] So, this was not facilitated by your contacts within the Japanese Royalty, or anything.
BF: No.
DW: This was just something you did on your own initiative.
BF: Yeah. I mean, as a journalist, I knew this. I’ve done this before with people like Paul Volcker, you know.
DW: Right.
BF: You know where they stay, and if you call in English instead of Japanese, they think you must be an insider and they just put you straight through to these people.
DW: Wow. Unbelievable.
BF: But, the other thing is -- I could have told the Japanese sort-of-underworld types and they could have dragged him off somewhere. But, you know I’m not a gangster; I’m a journalist, so I didn’t tell them, okay? I didn’t let those dangerous people know where he was.
DW: Well I think that’s a good thing. I don’t think that at this point it’s going to be constructive to, as Christopher Story calls it, “horizontalize” anyone.
But, there are going to be some tribunals. I mean, if you read Christopher Story’s article, which you endorsed recently in one of your latest posts, he’s basically saying that the floodgates have been opened and INTERPOL is now free to work in the US.
As of December 6th, the whole thing is starting to be shut down, this “OPERATION STILLPOINT” that was run by the Bush administration.
BF: Yeah, I know. I have my own sources, who I have verified to be... you know, senior members of the Rothschild family, and a person through the remote viewing outfit at the CIA and other... you know, I have my own personal high-level contacts.
So, if I write something that’s the same as Mr. Story, it means that I have confirmed it with my own sources. I would not, you know, write something... Like, if you’re a journalist and it appears in writing, it means somebody has beaten you to the story.
DW: That’s true.
BF: So anything I write, I have confirmed with sources I believe to be reliable. And if it turns out to be wrong, I’ll issue a correction.
In fact, one thing I must... I said that George Bush Sr. was killed, but what I really... would likely say: “We haven’t confirmed it.”
DW: Right.
BF: But, what I was able to confirm at the time of the Fort Hood shootings, independently, was that there were a lot of VIP limousines there, that there were many contradictory stories about how many shooters there were.
George Bush Sr. and his wife were immediately rushed to the hospital afterwards and that, you know, the MI6 people were telling me there had been an attempt on his life. But then you see him appear at a football game.
And what they told me... And you see, the stuff... there’s a lot of stuff I hear that I don’t write, because I just don’t find it credible. But, what they told me was that they had replaced him with a clone, and it was an old and not very good-quality one.
Now, I don’t know if that’s true or not and I don’t want to put something like that, because like I say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
But, we have confirmed that he’s very senile. Maybe he forgets... he forgets what he said three minutes ago and he’s no longer the real power; it’s his wife...
And the other thing about Henry Kissinger... again, my sources tell me that. Now they may put out an old video of him on TV to try to discredit me, but until I confirm otherwise, I believe he was taken out.
DW: Well there’s no question that the action has really reached its pinnacle here. There is such depth of data in Christopher Story’s presentation, and it obviously is correlating independently with what you’re saying. I do think it’s unfortunate that he chose to attack you, based on some sort of paranoia that just because your Black Dragon Society has, you know...
BF: Obviously, he’s providing good information.
DW: Yeah.
BF: But obviously, he has a few personality problems and I think it’s best not to, you know, get involved in some kind of tit-for-tat argument with the man. But if it’s a libelous issue, I have to issue a correction, that’s all.
DW: Right. And what I will say is that when you recently, in your post from the 13th of January, disclosed the actual nature and structure of the Black Dragon Society.
It basically seems as if you’ve got just about everybody on Earth in all the varying factions singularly unified against this Bush-run cartel of the so-called Rockefeller faction. That seems to be what’s happened here. Is that correct?
BF: Yeah... no, there’s... Basically we’re dealing with the Royal families of Europe, the Thule Society, and the people who own the, you know, the printing machines for money worldwide, except for the bank of China.
DW: Okay.
BF: And, you know basically, they’ve been ruled by terror and murder for hundreds of years and they’ve been very scared.
And so, the minute some people came out with some actual, you know, backing, in other words, some heavies standing behind you, so you can speak the truth without worrying about being immediately killed, then all sorts of people popped out of the woodwork and said, “Oh yes, we hate those guys. Please help us.”
You know? And “We’re not with them.” This is the sort of thing that happened.
But it’s clearly not over. They still have a lot of power because they’re still, you know, you’re reading all that nonsense in the corporate propaganda media, still.
DW: Correct.
BF: And the Washington show is still going on with all its, you know, the continuing wars and murder and stuff. So, it’s not over. Yet, there are very serious forces aligning themselves saying: “Look. We’ve been making a mess running this planet and we need to change how we behave as a species.” And I think that consensus is getting very powerful now.
DW: Well you list... I just want to read a little excerpt for people who may not have been to your website, of the membership that you listed.
You say: “Our membership includes high-level members of the Rothschild family who want to use some of their gold to pay off US external debts. They agree to help the planet, so long as they can continue to live in their big castles and be surrounded by servants. We say, ‘Okay, why not? They can mobilize much of the British Empire, so let’s work with them.’ ”
Now, you then say: “P-2 Masonic Lodge in Italy, control of the Vatican, the Mafia, and they have also agreed to help save the planet. So long as they long offer to help the poor, the hungry, and the weak of this planet, we say: ‘Good, let us see action now and not words.’ ”
Now these two things, I understand why you’re doing this. I would also say that probably 90% to 95% of people that are into conspiracy theories are going to want to literally rip you apart for having said that you work with these folks. Just because they are out there, I’d be happy to share my perspective on why you’re saying this, but I’d like to hear from you first.
BF: Yeah. Look, these people are not a monolith. Okay? It’s not like a single evil entity.
DW: Correct.
BF: And what you had was some very bad people at the top and we had this whole faction of the Nazis, who believed in creating a super-race of super-humans and enslaving the rest of humanity. They were vicious murderers and they ruled through terror and assassination.
A lot of people who they were ruling at the top of these secret groups hated their guts and really wished something could be done about it.
So, the Rothschilds are not like... I mean they’re so many of them now. You’ve got to remember that we’re talking about the descendents of King David and many different royal families and factions and whatever. And so, a lot of them...
There was a big split in the Rothschild family between the people who own the money-printing machines and the people who actually had physical gold.
DW: Hm.
BF: What happened was, the people with the money machines, in order to keep power, they deliberately shut this gold out of the financial system. So, they wouldn’t recognize it.
If you brought the gold in – and this happened with Marcos in the 1980’s; he tried to sell some of this gold in Japan – is that they will not accept the gold if it doesn’t have the right stamp on it.
Rockefeller and the CIA were illegally taking a lot of this gold and laundering it into the financial system in order to keep themselves in power, so there was a rogue group of murderous Nazis who kind of, you know, were carrying out this plot, and there was a group that was fighting them in secret for a long time.
This was a people who backed Kennedy versus the people who assassinated Kennedy.
DW: Right. Now, in my “Disclosure Endgame” book, I bring up the testimony of Dr. Peter David Beter, who documents in quite some detail in a series of audio transcripts beginning in 1975 and continuing to around 1982, or something, all of these inside politics going on.
And he boiled it down to three major factions, which would primarily be your Rockefeller faction; your Rothschild faction, which he called the “Bolshevik-Zionist Axis”, saying that they have an Israeli presence, as well as a Soviet presence.
And then he was saying that the third axis was what he called the “New Kremlin”, which was actually a group that had been fighting these so-called Illuminati for some 200 years and were actually instrumental in the overthrow of the Bolsheviks from power in the Soviet Union in the late 1970s.
Now, there is some very, very interesting depth of data in this stuff. All of the interviews with him are transcribed and you can listen to the original audio for free and read the transcripts.
BF: Well, let me tell you my understanding of how the factions work.
DW: Yes, that would be wonderful.
BF: You actually have to go back to the time of when the Jews were taken to Babylonian captivity. What happened was, the Babylonian King killed the male descendents of King David.
His bodyguard, his imperial guard, decided to become a secret society and restore the bloodline of their king by protecting the females in the family. So they were married off to various princes in different places and they kind of secretly guarded them. And before Jerusalem fell, they buried and hid the gold that they had, and so…
DW: Who’s the “they”? I’m sorry, who’s the “they”?
BF: The descendants of David.
DW: Okay.
BF: So, when they went on the Crusades, they dug up the gold and they became the Knights Templars.
DW: Ah...
BF: And they built a bunch of banks and charitable works around Europe, and then on Friday the 13th, in 1300, whatever it was, the King of France and the Pope starting arresting them all and killing them and torturing them. They found out they were worship[ing] the Skull and Bones, called Baphomet, and stuff.
Then they fled in several directions. One group fled to the mountains of Switzerland, and that later became the BIS [Bank of International Settlements] and the Swiss whole thing, banking thing.
DW: Ah. Okay.
BF: Another group fled to northern Europe and they became the kind of Teutonic Knights, the Knights Templars in the Nazi Thule Society.
A different group fled to Scotland, where they formed the Rosslyn Chapel and they intermarried with the British Royal family.
DW: Hm...
BF: Another group went to Spain, and they were kicked out of Spain and sent to North America, and that was in 1492.
So, these are the different factions that originally existed. In more moderate times, I think that what your friend was saying, or your source was saying, was more or less right, but there is a pro-Russian Christian faction that kicked them out of Russia [to keep the power]? [muffled] 35:04
DW: Right.
BF: Then there is a faction in the British, who’ve always been fighting the Vatican and the Jesuits. Then the Jesuits and the Vatican tell me that the real problem was the Thule Society-Muslim alliance.
DW: Oh really?
BF: Yes, and they said the Muslims are still ruled by a Caliph. You see, they’re all cousins and royal families and they intermarry, so they actually have a leader of all these different kingdoms who controls the Sunni Muslims.
There was a battle between cousins 700 years ago or whatever, which resulted in the creation of Shia Muslims.
Then in Asia, I think China, I believe, there are basically three factions. There is the Chinese Communist Party; there is the Shin Emperor – in other words, the last Emperor, who supposedly died as a gardener, was not the last Emperor. The grandson is now the Emperor and he controls an awful lot of gold and money.
Then there’s a faction in Taiwan that wants to restore the Ming Dynasty. A lot of them have been bribed by the Federal Reserve Board and this is the Ming that Christopher Story refers to.
DW: Oh, okay, understood.
BF: In Japan, I would say the secret government, 70% are pro-Western and 30% are pro-Chinese at this point.
DW: But pro-Western could also mean that they sold out to the Rockefellers.
BF: A lot of them did. You know, just look at the Trilateral Commission membership list of Japanese, and you’ll see the ones that work for Rockefeller.
DW: Right.
BF: They are led by former Prime Minister Nakasone and that whole group. But, they are no longer really in control here. The battle is still going on. Basically, the Emperor signed a treaty with the Rockefellers. Things are changing here too, but it’s not over.
So in other words, there’s a lot of chaos and confusion, but what is for sure is that the Asians – that includes the Japanese and the Chinese, and the southeast Asian countries – have all agreed that they control most of the world’s money and they’re no longer going to let the City of London and Wall Street decide how it’s invested.
That is the core of this crisis. You see, the people of Wall Street and the City don’t want to lose their power, and this is what the battle’s all about.
DW: Yes, I think a fascinating point to interject here, is if you go back to Peter David Beter’s testimony and you look at his history of the Rockefellers, what you realize is that their world power and how it manifested simply came from the economic advantage that they held as the kingpins of the oil economy.
I think that when the Rothschilds set them up, they underestimated how dominant that economic force would be, that this group would end up splintering off and becoming such a megalithic force throughout most of the 20th century.
BF: Well, yeah, there you have it. You have the Rothschilds pushing this global warming, which was really an effort to promote the nuclear industry and make it seem environmentally friendly again...
DW: Right.
BF: ...as they battle against the oil and the war industry in the US. So you got two big factions there fighting. That was manifested in the election that Al Gore had stolen from him, although it turns out he’s also a scumbag. [laughs]
But, what the thing that they have in common is that they want to have a central control over the energy. They want to charge everybody a monthly bill.
DW: When you say “they have in common”, you mean the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers?
BF: Yes, the different factions all want centralized control of the economy. In other words, they all want to have a Babylonian God-King type system, you know, a secret ruler with Godlike powers, and everything under central control.
What the difference is -- who is that person in central control? That’s what the fighting has been about.
And I think what most of humanity says is “We’re tired of having secret God-Kings ruling us and we want this system to end.”
So, that’s the other real battle and I, personally, believe in meritocracy as the best form of government. That is a pyramid that anybody can climb to the top, if they are good enough, with complete transparency.
DW: Well, I think the gist of what you’re also saying here, just to reiterate this point, is that the other countries of whom you’ve mentioned, there are a variety of factions, have now eclipsed the economic power and growth of either the Rothschild or the Rockefeller factions.
BF: That’s right. They were afraid that they were going to lose control. That’s why they wanted to kill everybody. But, you know, the Asians and the Asian Secret Society have been fighting them for hundreds of years, and doing business with them at the same time, I might add.
For example, some of the people I talked to sold heroin to the CIA during the Vietnam war.
DW: Right.
BF: And when the CIA tried to double-cross them, they blew up a bunch of CIA airplanes and they went back to business. So, they’ve been dealing with them since the times of the Opium Wars and before, but they have not been controlled by them.
They’ve been trying very hard through bribery and promising to China that, “You will get to rule the entire planet, just work with us.” They’ve managed to corrupt a lot of people out here, but not enough to make a difference at the end of the day. We’ve been weeding out the people they’ve bribed and we’ve identified them.
So, you know, the process is ongoing. We’re in a war and it’s not over.
DW: Right and I would say that the major tools that they seem to have on their side would be blackmail, bribery, death threats, intimidation, and all those things cost money, right?
BF: And propaganda. Yes they cost money, yes.
DW: Yes and the point being that they’re basically no longer able to finance the scope of intimidation, blackmail, and bribery operations required to keep a lid on this thing.
BF: That’s right. And now the Mafia has broken away, and the Chinese underground has broken away, and then the Japanese underground has broken away.
So you see, at the very top of the world, if you want to get that high in power, you have to have armies, spies, and assassins. It’s not normal thinking anymore. This is how these people have operated, and they’ve had these secret organizations all over the world.
What’s happened is they’re losing control... they’ve lost control over the secret organizations in Asia and there’s a huge battle in the West between what I would say are “the good guys”, who want to restore actual democracy and freedom of the press and everything.
The ones who are still trying to create or maintain the secret dictatorship that they’ve had, this Babylonian God-King system, and then within that, there’re different factions.
I would have to say also that, even if you cannot predict the details of the ongoing intrigues, because it is so complex and Machiavellian, you can say that at the end of the day, they’re doomed.
It’s like, if you light a cigarette, you cannot predict the inpidual swirls of cigarette smoke, how they’re going to go. But, you can predict that over a certain amount of time, the smoke will be evenly pided throughout the room.
DW: [laughs]
BF: The fact is that they’ve lost control over the world’s financial system and that means it is just a matter of time before their control of Western society is going to end.
DW: Now, when Christopher Story talks about “dollar refinancing” operations, you have mentioned something to the effect that the people who actually have legitimate money in the bank, and aren’t playing these Collateralized Debt Obligation games and derivatives games, and so forth, that their money will be preserved as we go through this transitional process. Is that correct?
BF: Well... Okay, my own independent information is that – and it coincides a lot with Mr. Story, but not completely – was that they... First of all, under President Clinton and Greenspan, they secretly passed a law allowing 100 times leverage – that is, you could get back 100 times what you really had.
DW: This is the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act? Or something else?
BF: Well, you know, the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act was part of it, but the point is that, you know, usually there’s a limit, like there was always a traditional limit of 10%.
DW: Okay.
BF: That is to say, for example, if you bought a $100,000 futures contract, you would have to have $10,000 real dollars.
DW: Correct.
BF: But, now they made it so that if you wanted to buy it, you only [need] to have $1,000 real dollars to buy $100,000, and that makes it a much, much more high risk / high return.
What they did, for example, in California, there was an illegal Mexican worker earning $12,000 a year. They gave him a loan to buy a house for $750,000, and he didn’t have to pay any money for the first five years.
Now, of course, they know that loan’s going to go bad, but it doesn’t matter, because that was part of the plan. They then take that $750,000 house as collateral, put it in some kind of mortgage-backed fund and then bet it 100 times more, so that it would be suddenly $75,000,000, I believe.
When the price of real estate’s going up, you get the astronomical profits which they then parked in the Cayman Islands and off the banking official books, right?
DW: Mm-hm.
BF: And then, when the price of real estate started falling, they created the astronomical losses, which they also just hid.
Their plan was to bankrupt the U.S. and then come back and buy everything on the cheap, but what happened was the rest of the banking world said, “Enough of this crime and theft” – and they tried to sterilize this money – saying, “No, you cannot cash that money. That was created through fraud”.
This is where the battle-lines are drawn. Now, the Bush and all these people, the Feds, they want to cash that stuff in at 2.5% of what it’s worth.
Under Obama, they’ve reflated this bubble and they’ve now got, literally, something like $4 quintillion dollars? I had to look this up, you know. It’s like a one with 30 zeros, or something. You know, it’s total nonsense...
DW: Right.
BF: ...because the entire world GDP is $60 trillion. Okay? It’s like, “I will offer you a zillion dollars, so please give me your sunglasses.” Say what? You know, this is the sort of nonsense that it’s degenerated into.
DW: Right. [laughs]
BF: But, you know, it’s about power and these guys still control a vast military apparatus and they’re threatening violence if they don’t come to a deal.
DW: “These guys” meaning the Rockefeller faction.
BF: Yes, that whole group -- the owners of the Federal Reserve Board and the owners of all the propaganda media companies.
DW: Well, it’s my understanding from what Christopher Story is saying that Obama’s Executive Order has now allowed INTERPOL to be holding people at gunpoint on both ends of these Federal Reserve transactions that’re necessary to execute the lien that was put on them from China, to the effect of some... what was it? $47 trillion dollars?
BF: Yes, I am also hearing that. The Rothschild people that contacted me have made this following offer to China and the Asians, and I think it’s a good one. They want to take gold they have stashed away in the Philippines and use it to back up all the dollars that were created through honest work.
In other words, not just derivatives, you know, “funny money”, but the rest of the dollars – back them up to 1/28th of an ounce of gold for each dollar. Then they want to merge it with the Hong Kong Dollar and rename it the Hong Kong Dollar.
The reason is because 90% of the dollars ever created are owned by people who are not Americans, and they don’t want that to become worthless paper.
So, they’re trying to sterilize, get rid of all this “funny money” created by the Feds as part of their plan to take over the U.S., and then make the rest legitimate again.
Now, what the Chinese have done, and this is very clever on their part, is they took all their dollars and they bought commodities and everything physical they could get their hands on.
So, they were buying a bunch of gold futures and they were demanding actual payment in physical gold. But, what happened was the Feds didn’t have the physical gold, so they sent tungsten coated with gold because it apparently weighs... it has the same density as gold.
DW: You have to dope it with a little bit of lead, but yes, basically it’s the same.
BF: Yeah. And I’ve confirmed this with someone who reports to the Politburo, so this is not something I heard on the Internet, or something -- you know?
DW: I understand.
BF: Then the Chinese said, “No, we want real gold”, and they don’t have it. They’ve been scrambling and scrambling and they’ve been begging us for gold and we’ve been saying, “No, buzz off”.
So what they’ve [The Rockefeller faction] done now is they’ve threatened to invade Venezuela and take over the oil fields there and then cut off the oil out of the Persian Gulf.
DW: Right, the Gulf of Aden.
BF: Yes, the Gulf of Aden. That’s what all this Yemen stuff is all about. So, that’s where the game stands now.
DW: And this guy who tried to blow up the airplane on Christmas, Abdul al Mutallab, who was indicated by Christopher Story as also being an agent provocateur of some kind. Correct?
BF: Of course, of course. I mean, look, they ordered these naked body scanners before this ever happened. The idea is to intimidate and humiliate and break down the American people into submission, and ultimately, they want to prevent travel, if they can.
It’s them saying, “Look we can do it whatever in the hell we want to the American people, and they are no longer going to be able to fight us. We’ve got them totally subjugated. They’ll do anything”.
This is what their message is. That’s what this thing was all about, if you ask me.
DW: Now, what do you think happened vis-à-vis the swine flu? Because there was massive paranoia on the Internet about that and a lot of people did get shots, but now we’re not seeing some sudden massive die-off at this point.
BF: Well, that whole thing was stopped. I mean, you know, Jane Burgermeister and others blew the lid on that and that whole operation failed. They were planning to kill a lot of people that way, but it was stopped.
DW: Right.
BF: It was also a threat on their part. Saying, “Hey if you don’t deal with this, we’ll kill everybody with disease”.
So, you know, like I said, they were trying to use starvation and disease to kill people, but it’s not working. Their genocidal plans have now been stopped.
DW: Most people who read about conspiracies, and admittedly, they may not know as much as they think they do, would attest to that the P-2 Masonic Lodge controlling the Vatican and the Rothschilds and so forth -- they also want massive depopulation.
BF: Well, there has been a generational change of leadership, and no, they no longer want that. And you can look at the Catholic church. Whatever you can say about them, they have always been against birth control.
Everywhere you have strong Catholic rulership, like in South America; you have high rates of childbirth. So I can’t see them as being in favor of depopulation, if you see what I mean.
DW: Right.
BF: It’s the Nazi group that wanted the depopulation, but the Vatican people tell me that they were losing power. They were under attack by the Muslims and by the Thule alliance.
DW: This is slightly off track, but I’m going to veer back in. We know that the CEO of Rockefeller Enterprises was recently seemingly murdered. I don’t know if they called it a murder or not, but I guess it was a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head or something -- allegedly self-inflicted.
BF: Well, what I was told is that they had to kill him, or he would have killed some of our people, and it’s like putting down a rabid dog. That’s what they told me about that.
DW: “They” meaning who?
BF: This would be kind of MI-6-type people, not Chinese or Asian-type people. Okay?
DW: Okay. So, given that assassination and I believe you said before that David Rockefeller is more like a titular head of the cartel, but is not actually really the big boss anymore. Do you have any…?
BF: Yes, the Rockefeller women apparently rose up. And you know that whole thing with the shareholders meeting for Exxon, all these Rockefellers showing up. The whole clan said, “Look. Enough!” and David has stepped back.
But, we’ve got Jay Rockefeller active, and that’s George Soros and Brzezinski, and Obama, and they’re kind of anti-Bush, but they kind of want to instead have Brzezinski-Soros-Obama, that whole group in charge.
So, that’s who we’re talking about now, yes. That’s where they’re coming from now. So that’s Brzezinski / Jay Rockefeller / Soros / Obama.
DW: Okay. Now, if you read Christopher Story’s article, he basically says that Obama has now caved in favor of this larger international alliance, so as to allow INTERPOL to get in, because otherwise, if he had continued to side with the people that were in his cabinet, he would have faced imminent political destruction.
Now, I’ve also heard from Rothschild sources that same exact thing that you’ve heard, which is that there’s this plan to have him removed before the end of this month, which may or may not happen, but I heard the same thing that you did before you published it.
BF: What I heard also that there’s this trial on January 6th [Ed note: this is on January 26th?] about his citizenship, and that the judge is a Marine, and that he’s going to either have to kill the judge, or you know, Obama’s going to be shown not to be legitimate.
The controllers of Obama don’t want this exposed, so in order to cover things up and hide their tracks, they might try to kill him. This is what I’ve heard.
Now, there is, I think, one group saying that they want to get rid of Biden and Obama and have Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton take over. So that would be like the women in these factions, saying, “All right. Look, our men-folk have been bad. Give us a break, let the women on this side of the thing handle it.”
Then of course, there’re a lot of people in the military and the other agencies and stuff who say, “No! We don’t want those nasty ladies there. They’re just as bad. We want to install a temporary government, hold free and fair elections, and return the United States to Constitutional rules.”
So, that’s where I think the fault-lines are.
Christopher Story is obviously with the Queen of England, and the problem with the Queen of England is that I actually, personally, interfered on her behalf when her husband Philip and the oldest son of Queen Beatrix showed up in Tokyo with a $2.1-trillion-dollar check.
DW: A check? [laughs]
BF: Yes, or bond, whatever. You know... instrument.
DW: Okay.
BF: They asked me to call the bank and say, “Please cash it,” so I did. I called the chairman of Mitsubishi Tokyo UFJ Bank and said, “The Black Dragon Society would like you to cash that check for them.”
And then she then turned around and gave the money to George Bush and all those people...
DW: Oh my gosh!
BF: ...right into the Nazi faction. And then all sorts of people on the British side felt they had been betrayed by the Queen and they started sending me all sorts of information about her, and it turns out…
DW: I’m sorry to interrupt you, but how did you not get killed as a result of this?
BF: Well, because I immediately explained that I had been fooled by these people and that I really had expected the money to go to ending poverty, and stopping environmental destruction, and not to financing another round of war.
DW: I mean, let’s just stop for a minute here and say this, just to reiterate that you’re saying that you’re personally responsible for $2.1 trillion dollars ending up in the hands of the Bushes.
BF: Yes, but I didn’t know that.
DW: Wow.
BF: So, we had to switch that money, you know... freeze it.
DW: Oh, so they didn’t actually get it.
BF: Well, they got it and as soon as we saw where the money went, we froze the account.
DW: Oh. Now you’re saying that as a result of you realizing that you’d been double-crossed and how upset you were, that this…
BF: A lot of people in the U.S. and England then started giving me information about the Queen. She’s got a lot of dirty laundry they’ve been blackmailing her about.
You know, Diana was pregnant with a Muslim child and she was going to convert to Islam and that’s why they killed her, for example.
DW: Right.
BF: Then a cousin of the Queen phoned and said that they actually had human sacrifices at Balmoral Castle twice a year.
DW: Ah.
BF: And then an illegitimate daughter of King Edward said that they made a deal with the Nazis, which is why the Battle of Britain was called off at the last minute.
DW: Wow.
BF: And if you’re a military historian, everybody always said if the Germans only kept pounding one more day at the British defenses, they would have won the Battle of Britain.
But suddenly, they decided to start bombing instead. And why did they make this mistake? Well it wasn’t a mistake.
They deliberately called off the attack because they made a secret deal with the British Royal Family. This is the secret they don’t want kept.
The other thing I was told is that Hitler was actually Queen Elizabeth’s uncle.
DW: Oh my God.
BF: So, you know, we find out we have these Royal Families fooling the people. And they keep changing their last names. But if you look at Kaiser Wilhelm...
DW: Wasn’t Hitler a Bronfman or something? I seem to remember reading that or…
BF: Schicklegruber.
DW: Okay.
BF: But if you get a photograph of Hitler and a photograph of Kaiser Wilhelm and a photograph of King George V -- they look almost identical.
DW: Wow.
BF: These people marry each other’s cousins, so they have very similar genes. So, in other words, we’ve been told this huge kettle of lies by these self-appointed kings who ruled us in secrecy for hundreds of years.
Much of what we were taught as history is going to have to be relearned, because it’s just not true.
For example, as a Canadian, I was told that the War of 1812 was the Americans invaded us, so we repelled them. And now I found out actually what happened was the Americans didn’t renew the Rothschild’s banking license, and so they invaded the U.S.
DW: Hmm.
BF: So, you know, I mean, all sorts of stuff that we’ve been taught is just plain wrong.
DW: Well, you know, there was a massive revolt against the Masonic Order in America in the 1800s, which led to almost the complete collapse of Masonry.
And then the Civil War was created, so that people would want to join the Masons in order to get preferential treatment on the battlefield, to save themselves from being killed.
That was the only way they were able to repopulate the ranks, because of how badly this scandal involving the murder of Captain William Morgan had almost completely wiped out the Masonic Order. And that’s something that you never hear in conventional history.
BF: Oh, of course. I mean, there’s so much… you know. Basically, once the Fed is out of the way and you go back to 1913, you’ll find out that so much of World War I, World War II, were all kind of set up according to a predetermined plot.
And another thing I’ve heard, for example, recently that, you know, the Titanic…
DW: Oh, I heard this too -- go ahead.
BF: …that they really put all these rich people and royalty who weren’t going along with their plans onboard, and then they were supposed to all have a chat as they crossed the Pacific.
Suddenly at the last minute, J.P. Morgan, the bad guys, didn’t join the boat, didn’t get on the boat, and they rammed it deliberately into an iceberg.
And then, at gunpoint, they prevented them from boarding the lifeboats. So, this was like a way of killing a whole bunch of their enemies in one fell swoop.
DW: Well, it was also the fact that – and this is very highly sensitive, and somebody told me this in confidence, but now that you’ve said it, I’ll just go with it.
They said that the “women and children first” rule was already chosen in advance, so that none of the men would live, AND deliberately sabotaged.
This is why the Captain was steaming towards the iceberg at top speed. [DW: They also deliberately did not include enough lifeboats so that only the women and children would survive.]
Woodrow Wilson was aware that this had happened, and that’s when he said, “There exists this power in the world so subtle, so organized, so watchful, that we dare not speak above a whisper when we speak in condemnation of it.”
BF: Yeah. And, remember, there was a novel about a ship called the Titan that sank on its maiden voyage…
DW: Oh, right.
BF: …a year or two before that. Well, in a way they’re announcing their plans to the insiders.
DW: Right, because that’s the ritual aspect of it, where they like to announce out in the open what they’re going to do.
BF: Yeah, the same with… they had a Fox special about a plane flying into the World Trade Center right before…
DW: Right.
BF: So, these people have really been making fools of us for a long time. And there’s going to be an awful lot of anger when this comes out. But, you know, I think you have to remember, these people were born into that system, and it’s enforced through gruesome murder, so a lot of them had no choice.
And we really do have to forgive them, once this is out.
DW: I agree with you. And I think that point is largely underestimated in the public. Because the bottom line is, we can’t go back to pogroms like they had when they were good Germans, and everybody says, “Oh, everybody who’s a Jew is the problem; we need to get rid of them.”
Now, a lot of Germans didn’t know that was being done, but certainly there were many within the command structure who did.
BF: The whole Holocaust thing was a Jew-versus-Jew thing, you know.
DW: On some levels, yeah.
BF: Yeah, on some levels. I mean… it’s not… I think anti-Semitism has been used as camouflage for a very long time to hide these Satanists, you know, and we cannot let them do that.
We cannot let them try to sort of change this into some kind of, you know, Jewish prejudice thing, which is… No. I mean, because most of the people who are taking them down now are Jews, you know, fighting against them.
So we have to avoid that whole sort of trap and minefield they created with this whole anti-Semitism propaganda business, you know?
DW: The problem is that the public is not very forgiving, and they’re going to turn into a lynch-mob if they find out – and they are finding out – the scope of what’s been done.
I think that’s counter-productive because these folks, even though they may have participated in these rituals and done some really horrendous things, they also are in a position where if they were to sort of change their tune and start working on behalf of humanity, rather than against humanity, they could be very influential in a positive way in a very, very rapid amount of time.
BF: Well, that’s what they’re saying, you know, and that’s what they’re offering us.
DW: Right, because they already have the infrastructure, they already have the financial systems, they already have the corporations… there’s all that infrastructure already in place, whereas if somebody were to just say, “Oh, let’s exterminate everybody who’s a member of said group…”
BF: Yeah.
DW: …then...
BF: And the other thing is that they have been in charge of planning humanity’s future for thousands of years.
DW: Right.
BF: We can’t just destroy that and then have nothing ready to replace it with. We do have to have some kind of system, so we can all decide what we want to do next. We cannot just let there be chaos and disorder, which is what they’re afraid of. So, we do have to have an orderly transition.
Now, I’ve always used the example of China in 1978. They did not dismantle the state-owned enterprises.
DW: Hmm.
BF: They just built a new economy around them to the point where they became irrelevant.
And I think that we let these Rothschilds live in their castles and do their stuff, and we’ll build new stuff around them until they become, you know, like these relatively minor anachronisms. But they themselves will have greater wealth than they had before, since the rest of humanity will be so much richer that their wealth won’t seem so great anymore.
DW: I think the average person who’s listening to this and knows about this stuff, in order to keep them from yelling at the computer, let’s just say that there are still going to be people in these groups who are going to participate in some “black mass” rituals and some things that are really nasty.
Now, if betrayal is the core of what these groups’ philosophy has been, how do we ensure that they not simply change their mind in another year and decide, “Oh, well, you know, now that we’ve gotten our enemies out of the way on the American side of things [the Rockefeller faction] now we’re even more powerful. Now we can kick the world’s ass?”
BF: Well, that’s where the Black Dragon comes in, yeah? Because we’re going to have a secret organization that will… it will go back to sleep, but we’ll monitor these people and make sure it doesn’t happen again. So, there’s no way they’re going to be able to get away with it again.
DW: Too many people know about it, and there’s too much power that’s outside of their own control.
BF: Yeah. And the Asians will have their own secret network, and they will keep these people out of there. And that’ll be one.
And hopefully, you know, there’s a new organization in the West which I’ve called the Black Dragon Society, but…
I need to make this clear: there is a different Black Dragon Society that was responsible for trying to create the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere during World War II.
DW: Correct.
BF: And there are still… there are descendants of these people who run an organization that has the same name. We know them, we talk with them, we have similar goals in many ways, but they’re a separate organization.
I chose the name “Black Dragon Society” because they set up martial arts centers all over the world, and these are run according to a meritocracy. And they’ve always had a philosophy against nepotism. So, we’re saying, no, the original Black Dragon philosophy was to build a world-wide network for self defense, and never attack.
We have very, very powerful people in the Asian underworld who support this and who are a part of it. So, the head of it is a Japanese person.
DW: Hmm.
BF: And I’m kind of like a liaison with the Western societies.
DW: So, this is not just a bunch of people that are going to karate class on Wednesday night. You’re saying that these martial arts organizations are fronts for something that’s more organized than that.
BF: Oh, yeah. No, I mean, at the very top, you have some very serious people. You’ve got to remember, they’re all over the Chinese and Japanese militaries, and the Yakuza and all this kind of stuff. And there are so many, you know.
Like for example, almost 200,000 US Special Forces trained in Ninjutsu here in Japan, and all those people have had serious martial arts training. A lot of them believe in the philosophy that you should only fight to defend, you should never attack women and children, and you should protect the weak!
A lot of the people in the Western forces completely agree with that philosophy!
The thing is though, of course, in the West they don’t want to be ruled by China, and that’s… of course! China’s not going to rule the West.
The point is that China and Asia does not want the West to rule them anymore.
They have had a secret colonial form of government in Japan, and they’ve been trying always to take over China, and the Chinese keep booting them out. The last time was in 1967 when they kicked out all the Russians and the Communists and all those people.
DW: Hmm!
BF: Comintern. [Communist International] So…
DW: Now, you’re saying that this Japanese Secret Society, through the martial arts societies, that there’s 100-million members of it?
BF: Well, I mean, if you took all the people around the world who study karate, judo, jujitsu and stuff, and the people who have studied them, and you think, you know, you’d get about that many people. And in an emergency, we believe these people can be mobilized. In fact, we know they can.
DW: Right. So it’s the “Instant Ramen army” kind of argument?
BF: Yeah. I mean, there is a hierarchy; there is a command structure in place. And if there are people out there trying to kill 4-billion people, then of course, they’re going to say, “Hey, no, you’re not going to kill my family!”
DW: Right.
BF: Of course they’ll fight!
DW: Right.
BF: I don’t think we need to get to that level. Another thing I want to tell you, how I think it’s going to end, is that… I was in South America, and I saw lots of coups d’etats happen. Basically, it’s quite simple.
DW: Hmm.
BF: You have a president, a general, and a finance minister who are in charge. Maybe one day the finance minister and the general meet in a sauna and say, “Hey, you know, the president’s going to replace us with his relatives, we have to move first.”
And the general says, “Well, I know a colonel near the capital who will work for me. And I can invade the presidential palace and capture the TV station.”
And the finance minister says, “Well, I’ll go to Wall Street and get Henry Kissinger’s permission.” And he goes, and Henry Kissinger says, “Okay, give me a few more banana plantations, and go ahead.”
And then there’s some shooting at the presidential palace early in the morning; the president is shot; there’s some shooting around the TV station; and suddenly, a new face appears on the TV, and that’s when 99 percent of the people find out.
DW: I see.
BF: So, in a similar way, this high-level battle that very few people are reporting, when it’s over, there are going to be sudden, big announcements, you know, all over the TV, all over everything. That’s when the brainwashed people are going to finally figure it out, and not until then, I’m afraid.
DW: Well, if you think about what happened with the economic collapse of 2008, it was quite spontaneous, you know.
BF: Oh, no! I was told in advance that would happen.
DW: Right, as was I. But for the average person, all of a sudden, you have Lehman Brothers going down, and all these other companies that… AIG….
BF: Yeah, what happened was, they cut the Feds off all of a sudden, right?
DW: “They” who?
BF: This would be the Rothschild faction and the new banking system people.
DW: Okay.
BF: Cut of all that toxic waste from the financial system. And then there’s been a ping-pong battle over control of these banking computers ever since. And the Fed people sent people to China saying, “Please,” you know, “give us some money! We’ll change. Once we have Obama in, everything’ll be different!”
And so the Chinese lent them a trillion dollars and tried to give the benefit of the doubt to Obama.
DW: Hmm!
BF: And then they promised they would turn the US into a Communist country, and whatever, and that China would be in charge of the world. And then, “We’ll give you our military secrets, anything, but please,” you know, “give us more money.”
That’s how they kept this thing going for the past year, but that ended in December with these INTERPOL planes and stuff.
And so, I’m now hearing that there’s some sort of, you know, accounting dates in this month that might be crucial, but they’re still trying very hard to suck up to and bribe China, and it’s still not a hundred percent over until it’s over.
But things are looking very good. It looks like the Feds are really on their last legs, but they’re not going to go quietly, and it’s not over until it’s over.
Okay, well look, I think I’ve said what I have to say at this present point anyway.
DW: Well, but… Okay.
BF: As for the space and alien stuff, I’ll believe that when the average person can go to the local spaceport and buy a ticket to another planet. [David laughs] You know, it’s got to be really that obvious.
DW: Well…
BF: I mean, I want these people to show up. I want to see it happen, but I believe that we’re on our own and it’s up to us humans to solve our problems and not wait for some space fleet. Although I wish it happens, and if it does, I’d be very happy.
DW: I don’t disagree with you in the sense that I feel like we do need to solve our own problems. What I’m trying to say is that we have had someone who worked in Space Command come forward and give some really explosive testimony.
BF: Yeah, I understand. But, I want to see actual space ships landing in different cities around the planet. Or at least, you know, being up there and anybody can look at them with a telescope. You know what I mean?
Like, I want to see them take action and I don’t want to hear talk about UFOs coming to rescue us.
And I also know that they were planning a fake alien invasion. I have this from von Braun’s secretary.
DW: Carol Rosin, right.
BF: Yeah, that they were planning a fake alien invasion as a cover for genocide. So, you know, my first suggestion is that maybe they’re just playing for time so they can still pull off this scenario. And we’re not going to give them that time.
DW: But I just want to point out here that you are now claiming that your membership includes the Pentagon “White Hats”, the Space Command. These are the people with all those levels of security above the President?
BF: Yeah. All right. They sent a guy out here who claims to be from that faction…
DW: Okay.
BF: ...who was with the remote viewing outfit of the CIA.
DW: Okay.
BF: He gave me a whole bunch of material about forbidden technology, and a lot of valuable information. He seemed like a nice guy, and he seemed sincere, and he does seem to represent this, the “good guys” in the Nazi faction.
We had a good talk the other day. He’s gone back to the USA, and he’ll be back in Japan later in January, and we’re going to take him to meet the head of the Black Dragon Society, and hopefully, we’re going to come up with some sort of agreement, so that the guys threatening to cut off the Gulf and invade Venezuela will agree to a, you know, swords-to-plowshares transition.
So that’s the kind of negotiation that’s going on.
DW: Well now, in your private newsletter, you mention the swords-to-plowshares transformation, and then you also say:
“This group has the potential to develop the over-6,000 patents that have hitherto been suppressed for national security reasons. One technology they possess is anti-gravity. This would make automobiles obsolete and allow roadways to be transformed into gardens.
“They claim to control technology that allows the creation of portals into other dimensions. They claim – we have not seen proof, but have heard this from many credible eyewitnesses – that many so-called underground bases around the world are actually such portals.
“Hopefully we’ll soon be able to see if this is true. If so, the implications are more than mind-boggling.”
BF: Well, again, I mean, they gave me the material about the Philadelphia Experiment and a bunch of scientific essays on antigravity – they described in detail how it works – which is why I felt, okay, you know, I can write this saying, “All right, they provided a lot of credible evidence, but they haven’t provided proof yet.” Okay?
DW: Well…
BF: I haven’t flown an anti-gravity scooter yet. I haven’t walked through a portal. I haven’t seen one. So it sounds good, and they did provide convincing evidence, but not proof…
DW: Well…
BF: [inaudible 1:17:46] ... for that.
DW: I understand. I’m just telling you that I now have three people I’ve directly spoken to at length myself who’ve actually been through these portals.
And what was so shocking to me was that this comes out on your blog, the subscriber-only blog, literally within days of when the third -- and in some ways the most amazing -- witness came forward saying exactly the same thing.
You didn’t hear from me on this and I haven’t even published it yet, but yet we’re all talking about the same stuff here.
BF: Yeah, but you’ve got to remember that they were… You know, if you take a cynical approach, you have all these former military types talking about UFOs.
Well, maybe they’re just preparing public opinion for the fake invasion, right? So, I always keep an open mind, but I also remain cynical at the same time. You know, skeptical...
DW: Oh! I think that’s one of your strengths! You’re not easily manipulated, and you’re not just going to be spoon-fed disinformation.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I find it very interesting that somebody from this group would’ve approached you guys, and I’m just curious as to what exactly are they saying now?
Are they saying that once this power structure is shifted and the venom has been drawn out of the system, that they would like to still be relevant, they would like to still be involved, and at that time they want to share this portal technology?
BF: Well, what they said was they don’t want to end up like when the Soviet Union collapsed and generals were suddenly finding themselves working as taxi drivers in London.
DW: Right.
BF: And they’re saying, “Look, if you do that, we’ll fight. And we don’t want to be ruled by the Chinese, either.”
And of course we say, “Yes. The Chinese don’t want to rule you. And we’ll keep paying your salaries. So just,” you know, “you don’t have to fight. And instead, we’ll write off US debt and help the United States rebuild their economy again.”
So, you know, it’s a win-win solution we’re offering and I think they understand that. We’re also saying there’s not going to be any Nuremberg trials, although there might be a South African-style Truth and Reconciliation Committee.
But anyway, that’s about it. When it happens, it’ll happen, you know? Let us see.
But I’m getting a lot of good news, and I’m going to hang up now, and I’m going to start making some calls to some of my sources to get the latest information. Okay?
DW: Great. Well, I really want to thank you, and I’m sure that everyone listening to this thanks you.
Just one quick question is, how vomitous [unclear word] do you think the economic transition will be when it actually happens? Should we be prepared for some very hard times? Or do you think it’ll be fairly smooth? Or, the common person listening to this, how is it going to affect them?
BF: Hopefully, it’ll be fairly smooth, and there won’t be a lot of disruptions. But, I do believe everybody should have a certain amount of food on hand, because the bad guys are going to try to create starvation, still.
DW: Right.
BF: And it’s not over until it’s over. But, you know, forget about gold. At the end of the day you can’t eat gold. Okay?
The most important thing is to have enough food and a plan, you know, somewhere in the countryside you can go to if things really do fall apart. But, I don’t think it’s going to come to that.
DW: What would be the time window and/or the signal that we would need to really take that seriously?
BF: Well, if they ever decide… You know, they’re trying to declare martial law, but if they ever actually start physically rounding people up and taking them to these Halliburton camps, that’s the time for everybody to grab their guns and, you know, fight for their lives.
DW: Well, if INTERPOL is in the US and stopping these guys, don’t you think that would also stop the Halliburton troops and stuff?
BF: Well, that’s what we believe, and we don’t think the Pentagon is going to just obey any orders to do that, so I don’t think it’s going to happen. But I’m saying that’s the worst-case scenario they were planning, and we’re pretty sure it’s not going to happen.
DW: Right. I know it’s a war and it’s non-linear, but what would you say is the most probable window of time that we have to be prepared for these hardships to occur?
BF: Ah... this year.
DW: Okay. So, it would be a good idea for the people listening to us talking to probably prepare now and have some stored food on hand so that in the event that there’s a disruption temporarily of goods and services, that they can ride it out fairly smoothly?
BF: And you can get, you know, just get yourself a few big sacks of rice and beans. It’s very cheap, and you can store like a year’s worth of food for a few hundred dollars. Okay?
DW: Mm-hm.
BF: You don’t have to go and buy expensive freeze-dried food and stuff, you know? That’s all it takes -- rice and beans.
DW: Do you think there could be a disruption of oil supplies as well? People not being able to drive for a while?
BF: Well, the US has enough emergency stocks that it’s not going to be an issue.
DW: Oh, okay. Wonderful!
Well, I thank you very much, and I hope to speak to you again soon. And keep letting us know what’s going on. I hope everybody will sign up for your blog, because it’s really wonderful.
BF: Thank you.
DW: Great. You have a great day.
BF: You too.
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**Transcript provided by David Wilcock's Transcription Team from divinecosmos.com**
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